Don Muang (Mueang) Bangkok's 2nd International Airport ! On May 2 2007
Here'a a couple of post's from bangkokairportlink's blog
Since Don Muang airport was closed a maximum of 10 flights a day land or take off at Bangkok's former airport, domestic and international passengers flying to the brand new Suvarnabhumi international airport.
Don Muang looked small when crowded, but it is actually huge when empty, and until its reopening in March 2007, it was most of the time empty, with just some officials and army pilots walking in the hall.
Airport staff who has been sitting idle since september 2006 and the grand opening of Suvarnabhumi airport will soon have to work almost as much as in the past, when the airport was overwhelmed by tourists and other passengers, and from March 2007, VIP Passengers at Don Muang won't receive anymore such enthusiastic pampering as they got since the new airport opened, because Thailand domestic flights of Thai Airways, Nok Air, Orient Thai, and soon Thai Air Asia will operate from this airport again.
Before it closed to public in September 2006 Don Muang airport handled around 800 incoming and outgoing flights a day, bringing in thousands of passengers, or about 39 million fliers annually, but as it will only be used for domestics flights it won't handle so many people in 2007, but largely enough to remain opened even after Suvarnabumi airport repairing will be finished.
At the beginning, and as it is since it has been converted to serve chartered flights, private planes, public agencies, military and police planes, AOT Airport of Thailand will only open Don Muang Terminal 1, and maybe open Terminal 2 in the future if needed.
If you think about it, it was actually a pity that Don Muang had been left so little used for many months, and it's a chance that Suvarnabhumi airport need fixes, to push the government to open this great airport again.
Since the Suvarnabhumi opening staff at Don Muang had been reduced from 2000 to less than 300, but for the former airport reopening staff will be raised to around 1000.
Don Muang is a 321166 square meters airport and it was not efficient to keep it opened 24 hours a day for just a few daily flights, so it definitively is a great chance for everybody and Thailand finance that this airport opens again.
Only passengers who might have to get an onwards flight will be disappointed, as nothing has been organized yet to connect from Suvarnabhumi airport to Don Muang Airport, but a local orange bus, number 554.
Don Muang airport will be reopened with tight security as terrorist attacks threatens Bangkok and its airports.
DON MUANG AIRPORT BACK TO BUSINESS, THE REVIVAL
Travelers Crowd Don Muang for Songkran Homecoming Flights
A tide of hopeful passengers crowded into recently reopened Don Muang Airport Thursday morning with a larger number expected to use air services for upcountry tourism and homecoming trips this year, on the eve of Thailand's annual Songkran New Year festival.
Local residents and tourists alike came to board flights at Don Muang in the morning in larger numbers than usual. Some are Bangkok workers heading home to the provinces to be reunited with their families and celebrate the Songkran festival at home this year.
Most flights of three airlines based here -- including Thai Airways International, Nok Air, and Orient Thai -- bound for Chiang Mai, Ubon Ratchathani, and Phuket have been loaded almost to capacity.
It is expected that the largest number of travelers will be going by air for the Sonkran celebration, especially Thursday evening. Many airlines have increased the number of flights to accommodate more passengers throughout the Songkran period.
At Don Muang airport, the number of flights has risen by 40 per day.
Of this, 22 are international flights with 11 outbound and 11 inbound, and 18 are domestic flights with nine outbound and nine inbound.
It is projected the number of passengers at Don Muang would increase by over 7,000 during the Songkran period. At Suvarnabhumi Airport, the number of flights has increased by 424 per day. Of this, 369 are international flights with 183 outbound and 186 inbound, and 55 are domestic flights with 28 outbound and 27 inbound.
It is expected that the number of passengers at Suvarnabhumi would rise by over 65,000. It brings up the number of passengers at two airports by 72,000 altogether in the Songkran festival.
Security measures at the two airports will be stepped up as police and security officials of the Airports of Thailand Plc will be on alert around the clock.
RE:Don Muang airport ready for re-opening within 45 days - An EMINENTLY Sensible decision !- First ,Thai Airways & Nok Air domestic services. Hopefully ALL Air Asia's services next ?
On April 21 2007
I have been in and around aviation and the tourist business for 30 + years. Be it pilots, air traffic controllers, radar engineers, tour guides and operators. Aviation history & the Royal Aeronautical Society, you name it. If it has wings and engines and flies into an airport I am interested. Such is my fascination with aviation that when I worked in Kew, near London, UK. I would amaze colleagues by identifying an aircraft type on the approach to London(Heathrow) Airport, purely by the sound of its engines. I didn't need to look up. I knew it was a DC9 or a Boeing 727 etc etc.
I like to believe therefore that I know a little bit about aviation.
With my knowledge I can only applaud the decision to re-open Don Muang Airport to allow International and Domestic services to use the airport again. I have outlined my reasons in a previous post. In a nutshell, a major city like Bangkok, which has the location to be THE true HUB of Asia, will require at least TWO International Airports.
Today's News report about Don Muang:- 6-02-07
Don Muang airport ready for re-opening within 45 days
Transportation Ministry has said Don Muang Airport is expected to resume its service to passengers within 45 days.
Government spokesman Yongyuth Maiyalarp quoted Transportation Minister Theera Haocharoen as telling the Cabinet meeting Tuesday that within 45 days Don Muang Airport that was closed in September last year will be able to resume the services.
Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont announced earlier that Bangkok will now have two international airports; Suvannabhumi and Don Muang.
Considering the increasing number of passengers and demands, the Cabinet decided that Don Muang Airport, will be re-opened.
He was speaking after chairing the weekly cabinet meeting Tuesday. Theera's ministry was assigned to prepare Don Muang for the re-opening.
"Considering the problems we have now at Suvannabhumi Airport and the number of passengers are increasing, the Cabinet decided that Don Muang Airport will be re-opened and Bangkok will have two international airports."
The spokesman said it was an idea of the prime minister who said before the cabinet meeting that it was appropriate to use existing facility. This would alleviate problems occurred during repairs and improvement of Suvarnabhumi Airport.
The Nation
Bangkok's strategic aviation location:-
One blogger who disagrees with the re-opening of Don Muang cites these reasons:-
Maintaining 2 international airports in Bangkok has more harm than good.
1. Tourist will surely be confused.
2. Operation cost for AOT will be doubled.
3. Bagage handling problem may surface in Don Muang airport.
4. Public transportation service operation may not be lucrative.
5. Manpower size doubled.
My response is :-
1) The tourists won't be confused. When one arrives at Don Muang one knows one is in Thailand ! Suvarnabhumi ? - I thought I had just landed at Frankfurt !
2)A.O.T operations costs will be doubled - so will the revenue !
3)Baggage handling problems. Why ? There is no reason for this.
4)Public transport service may not be lucrative---ask the taxi drivers !
The roads between Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang appear to be good ones. Plenty of scope for enterprising bus operators and taxis.
5)Man power size doubled = unemployment reduced.
I would like to repeat some comments made by the member a watcher because I believe they are relevant:-
a watcher: "A part of my past career was a job of aviation, aeronautics industry and even I gave overhaul service of some police military airplanes owned by Thailand. The pessimistic views of dual airports were what I denied and wrote them in some corner of forum.
My SUGGESTIONS to Thailand are :
1. Promotion of aero-traffic industry, the integral,comprehensive promotion package covering from transport of passenser and cargo, airplane repair industry, aeronautics engineering college, piloting school, crew training college, charter business, assembly industry of light planes, and airforce fighters, helicopters. ASEAN needs pure the real hub of comprehensive aviation service industry that serve the fast growing area. Thailand can serve many neighboring countries as well as many middle eastern nations which are quickly swifting the demand from Europe to East Asian developed nations.
2. To introduce master plan of land traffic system among the Bangkok urban to each of two airports. Reroute the coming urban metro system. Try TGV or MAGNEV or monorail electram, the new modal of urban traffic as the first Asian nation.
3. Promote space industry too. Rocket propelling tech is one of traditional custom of Thailand. Raise young people how to do it in modern way (Bang Fai festival). Found exclusive professional colleges at Suwannphum field.
4. Open more international airports above present Phuket, Chiangmai. Khonkaen, Mukdahan, Ubon, Utapao, Kanchanaburi, Hatyai. Regional (Asean) routes are within 3 hours flights but such service really help Thailand to show "unseen Thailand and unseen treasure of people and industries. Many more but, I will leave things to others." Quote ends
Because the airports are relatively close, the Airspace procedures that cover both Don Munag and Suvarnabhumi may have to be changed.
One of the problems in Europe is traffic congestion. There is only a finite space in the sky. This is one of the reasons the airlines want more runways. With more runways the aircraft can be landed at a quicker rate therefore freeing up airspace for more traffic. The classic problem with Heathrow and Gatwick is runway slots. There are two runways at Heathrow and one at Gatwick(plus an emergency runway). Airlines would love three runways at Heathrow and two definite runways at Gatwick. They would be further pleased if there were two runways at Stansted. It is all down to that magic word, slots. Airlines need extra departure slots.
How does this affect Bangkok ? When Don Muang opens there will be another two available International runways for Bangkok. New airlines wishing to start services will now have the opportunity to go to Bangkok without the immediate problem of not enough runway slots. Cargo airlines, low cost airlines, new International airlines like the ones in China and India will find it easier to begin services. I would imagine Kingfisher Airlines of India would show interest in Don Muang, as would some of the newer Chinese Airlines and Charter Companies. Hopefully this will pave the way for Bangkok to become a major Aviation Hub and create a number of employment opportunities for the people of Thailand.
Well that sounds like the UK during the bad old days of the mid-1970's. Where did that lead ? Chancellor Healy had to call in the IMF to bail out a sick country.
Quote: "Passengers would be inconvenienced while staff would face personal difficulties. Many have bought houses near Suvarnabhu-mi and moved their children to local schools."
My view:- So it will take them 20 minutes to get to work instead of 10. Perhaps those times are a little ambitious unless the traffic is light, but you see my point ?
Quote: "Having two airports could also frustrate Thailand's bid to become Southeast Asia's air-transport hub, Somsak said. "We oppose the idea of having two international airports because Thailand could lose the chance to build Suvarnabhumi into a regional hub," he said. "To be an airline hub means we need a single service centre. Having two airports however will adversely affect international airlines."
My view:- Is this a problem for British Airways and Virgin Atlantic using Heathrow and Gatwick ? Not in the slightest. This sounds like a negative Union view rather than one knowledgable about International Air Travel. Look at all the cities I have quoted that have more than one International Airport. Moscow has more than one airport = Domodedovo, Vnukovo, Sheremetyevo-1, Sheremetyevo.
Let the airlines decide where they want to fly to. Let Thai stay at Suvarnabhumi and listen to the requests from International passengers, "My preference is Don Muang, I take it you fly there? You don't ! OK Give me back my credit card. I know someone who does. Don Muang is my Airport of preference!" I can see that happening at the Thai ticket desk in Frankfurt.
Thailand is in danger of being left behind the other Asian countries. The Thai Union have just confirmed it !
When I speak of a Hub I do not mean just one airport. I mean Bangkok as a geographical location. It is without doubt ideally suited to serve as a HUB location for aviation in Asia. That means, passengers, cargo, training, and a whole range of services. This is an opportunity, don't let it pass by !
Further to some of the comments added by readers I would like to add this reply:- "Of course London has a problem with it's airports. Including Heathrow and Gatwick. There are not enough runways. If there were enough runways this would free up the skies and effect a safe and orderly flow of traffic. In other words less delays. The powerful lobby around Gatwick, has meant that effectively there has only been one runway. The two runways at Heathrow, 27L & 27R, are too close for parallel landings and take-off's. It has already been tried. The third runway at Heathrow, was in the original plans. It will be a few years till that happens. If Heathrow does not expand it will lose out to Airports like Amsterdam. These are not my words but the words of the biggest airlines that use Heathrow. I cited BA and Virgin as users of twin airports, to counter Thai Airways argument."
It would appear that some foresaw the construction problems that have plagued Suvarnabhumi, quite a while ago. The major airlines have invested quite a bit of money into the new airport and are obviously reluctant to see Don Muang open again.
The low-cost airlines are very sensitive about costs, they work on paper-thin margins. They are keen to move to Don Muang. Prospective passengers also seem keen on Don Muang. Witness some of the replies to this Blog. There is a definite need for two Bangkok airports because with the unofficial deregulation that has happened with Thai air routes, traffic can only grow further. With just Suvarnabhumi open, there will be a fight for runway slots, with the wealthier National carriers outbidding the start-up and low cost carriers. Somebody is hoping for a kick-back from the bidding procedure. For aviation to expand and be an important element in the Thai economy, there must be two International Airports. Having said that, there must be plenty of focus on fast and efficient transport links between Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi. As has been mentioned in one of the comments below, it will not take too long for BOTH airports to become busy.
The relevant part of The Nation's article dated 12th February that shows that the low cost carriers are keen :-
"Some airlines support the move. One-Two-Go chief executive Udom Tantiprasongchai insisted the low-cost airline wanted to return, saying it was more convenient for passengers to get to Don Muang.
"We support the reopening," he said.
Suvarnabhumi Airport will become crowded very soon due to an increasing number of passengers generated by low-cost airlines, he said.
Udom added that the number of domestic passengers was expected to rise 20 per cent this year and the trend would continue.
The Tourism Authority of Thailand said the last few months of 2006 had seen 3.3 million passengers arrive at Suvarnabhumi, bringing the total for both airports for the year to 9.8 million arrivals. In September, Suvarnabhumi welcomed 693,284 arrivals, but that rose quickly to 733,429 in October, 896,696 in November and 981, 060 in December.
One-Two-Go will spend Bt40 million moving back to Don Muang but expects to sell more seats from the old airport.
Nok Air chief executive Patee Sarasin is in favour of Don Muang, hoping to see costs fall."
"We are ready to move to Don Muang," he said.
Source: The Nation 12-02-07
I feel I must quote from an excellent blog by anterian36. He puts his finger accurately on a number of relevant issues. It shows conclusively that the 'Old Guard' hates competition. Even to the detriment of Thailand and its future:-
Don Muang On February 14 2007
In a quote in the Nation,
"After the meeting, the Transport Ministry will propose a detailed plan to the Cabinet next week for final approval to reopen Don Muang, Theera said. The minister had said aviation fees, including landing and take-off fees, will be the same at both airports, although rentals for airline offices at Don Muang may be slightly cheaper. "
This seems a blatant attempt to reduce the benefit and attractiveness of Don Muang to budget airlines.
A further quote makes the reason for this clear,
"Moreover, Don Muang's reopening would enable Thai AirAsia to take over the airport as its business hub, without having to invest in the infrastructure,"
The whole point of Don Muang is that it should, and can be, a low cost terminal. Once again Thailand makes the wrong decision, it bows to pressure groups.
"If the government's policy is to use the two airports, the return of THAI to the old airport would be inconvenient," said Apinan.
Meanwhile, nine members of THAI's labour union yesterday submitted a petition to Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, protesting the reopening of Don Muang as an international airport.
Union chief Somsak Srinual said two international airports would cause management problems and could dash Thailand's hope to be an aviation hub as personnel would have to be divided up.
It is not Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, etc that are aviation hubs, it is London is the hub. Somsak is very small minded, two airports means more union members, means more money in his pocket, means he becomes more important, perhaps someone should whisper this in his ear:-)
Some consider that Singapore is the Switzerland of Asia. How have they achieved this status ? Singapore has been modern and innovative, never frightened to embrace the latest technology or business practices. Asian Aerospace was the third largest airshow in the world, has been held in Singapore since its inception in 1981, although disagreements over a movement of the exhibition venue will see it move to Hong Kong in 2008. A new show, the Singapore Airshow, will take place in Singapore in February 2008.
The Singapore Airshow, slated to be Asia's largest airshow, will be held on even years, at the new Changi Exhibition Centre which is purpose-built for aviation and aerospace exhibitions. Even with competition Singapore still forges ahead.
What of Thailand ?
My suggestion is that Don Muang becomes a free port (porto franco) or free zone.This is a port or area with relaxed jurisdiction with respect to the country of location. Most commonly this means being free of customs or being a special customs zone with favorable customs regulations. The island of Gran Canaria in the Spanish Canary Islands is one such area, so is Macao and Hong Kong.
Very favourable operating conditions, must be offered to cargo airlines and low cost carriers. In this way growth will be encouraged. No need to worry about the cost of operating two airports, the extra revenue should take care of that.
Thailand must be seen as Open For Business !
With the Hong Kong airshow coming this year and the Singapore airshow in 2008, there does not appear much scope for Thailand? London and Paris alternate between odd and even years as well. London at Farnborough and Paris at Le Bourget. These airfields generally only handle executive aircraft unlike Changi in Singapore and Chep Lap Kok in Hong Kong. Yet Farnborough has to compete with the Berlin Airshow and Paris with the giant Moscow Airshow(MAKS) at Zhukovsky Airfield.
Perhaps some time in the future there may be room for an airshow at U Tapao ? Although only if Thai aviation expands. A thought for the future ?
A quick glance at flights from Heathrow to Bangkok it would appear London is spoilt for choice. Thai, British Airways, Qantas, and EVA all fly direct. With one stop there is a choice from Etihad, Qatar, Gulf, Kuwait, Lufthansa, SAS, Olympic, Turkish.... the list seems endless, and that is just from Heathrow, I have not listed Gatwick. Is Bangkok an important destination ? Well it would seem the airlines certainly think so.
I still maintain that a twin airport policy is a wonderful opportunity for the Thai economy. It is up to Thailand to grasp this chance ?
Latest news 17th February:- Don Muang to get only domestic flights Don Muang Airport will be reopened for domestic flights only, but only Thai Airways International, Nok Air and One-Two-Go have committed to move their non-transit flights, Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen said yesterday.
This is very disappointing and shows an inability to make a claim in the modern World. It is hoped that Suvarnabhumi's profound technical problems will force a rethink ?
If Thailand does not take the 21st Century in its stride, I cannot help thinking that one day China will put Thailand in her pocket?
Further news:-
Thailand's civil aviation chief Chaisak Angkasuwan said many big cities have more than one airport and Bangkok should be no different.
"In Tokyo or France, they operate more than one international airport in a big city so I don't see any obstacle for Thailand to do the same thing," Chaisak told AFP.
'PPRuNe' calls itself 'The Professional Pilots Rumour Network'. Part of the web site is devoted to professionals in aerospace who would not otherwise have the chance to voice controversial issues. http://www.pprune.org/forums/index.php
Here is a selection of some of the comments about the Suvarnabhumi situation:-
(1)
"For those of us that just worked there recently and was never paid by Thaisky or even a ticket home once the company shut down or other operators, pucket air etc. this will just get worse.
Corruption is the norm there, nice place to go but dont expect to get paid.
Nice place for holiday or those willing to work for free to build time or much much less than they were promised on the telephone.
Seen many of these and the over 60 types, cant blame them as this was the only game in town, mostly good people from Delta etc.
Lying is second nature to these people, from the government on down.
It seems that once one pilot has had enough with not getting paid they just get another one.
Aircraft are not good, expect to get really familiar with the QRH.
Best to avoid, would not go back there unless pay was in advance.
All this and no pay." - posted by 'Earl'
(2)
"The problems here have the potential to cause serious disruption. The runway cracks have got worse since the raining season ended, prompting speculation that there may be multiple causes to the problem, including inadequate water management (the airport is built on a former flood plain), compounded by substandard construction.
I flew out of Suvarnabhumi over the weekend as SLF and it is obvious that there are also burgeoning management issues. The AOT management is under great pressure to fix the problems at the airport, but it is equally clear that there is no quick fix available for most of them. It is, therefore, inevitable that the current management will be "reshuffled" or "moved to inactive post", and the fact that, for instance, "fixable" problems such as the toilets remaining dirty and ill-maintained, or that there are so many light bulbs out all over the terminal, is symptomatic of a management resigned to their fate. In a few weeks' time, they will be removed and replaced, at which time they can exit blaming the previous administration for the mess they leave behind.
That's all well and good, but now we have potentially safety critical issues arising with the taxiways and runways, particularly the western runway. Bear in mind that Suvarnabhumi is still operating under a temporary international certification, which expires this Thursday, 25th January. Things do not bode well for the granting of a more permanent certification at this stage. The best they can hope for is a further temporary extension, while the pressure will mount to close parts of the facility and move some back to Don Muang." - posted by 'Bangkokeasy'
(3)
"It appears the answer to runway cracks and possible potholes is that, in true Thai style, Boeing and Airbus drivers are gonna have to just drive around them
This part of a Thai Government committee report in todays Bangkok Post:
The airport's problems also dominated yesterday's cabinet meeting.
Adm Theera said the cracking was increasing, including those found at the northern end of the eastern runway and the southern end of the western runway.
The immediate solution was to advise pilots to avoid cracked areas. That would be possible because the runways were wide and long enough, Adm Theera said.
He admitted that dodging the cracks would inconvenience the pilots and that partial closure of the runways to facilitate repairs might be necessary.
In the cabinet meeting, the minister said, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont emphasised the need for safety.
Sources said Mr Tortrakul told the cabinet that aircraft could not enter three parking bays due to cracks _ the possible causes of which could be substandard construction materials, poor management in times of floods or a design flaw.
A design flaw may be to blame because more cracks were appearing, even though the flooding had long gone. He expected his committee could conclude its investigation in three weeks after it was formed.
Thiti Paveenchana, an expert from the Engineering Institute of Thailand who has examined the airport, said the water level in the ditches around the airport exceeded the limit in October, when flooding in the surrounding areas was severe.
The safe level of water in ditches and gutters inside the airport should be less than 1.15 metres above mean sea level.
An AoT source said the excess water seeped through weep holes in taxiways and runways. When heated, the water underground forced its way through the pavement, causing cracks. Aircraft weight compounded the problem. Some cracks could be the result of substandard construction while others could stem from seeping water, the source said." - posted by 'Phil Space'
(4)
"The ICAO handle international certification of airports which for obvious reasons includes runways. There are questions at Bangkok over the runway strength. One of the key factors that has officials worried is the lack of confidence they have in numbers provided by Airports of Thailand for certification of the runways' surface strength, known as the pavement classification number.However I understand that it is not a legal requirment in order for airlines to operate into an airport. Indeed as you will see from what follows BKK has an interim certificate and may soon have none!
From the Nation, Bangkok Thailand
SUVARNABHUMINod for airport safety in doubtThis Friday was supposed to be the day Suvarnabhumi Airport would have received a permanent Aerodrome Certificate for meeting safety requirements of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) - but that is not going to happen.
Aviation officials are reluctant to renew certificate due to multiple concerns.
The interim certificate issued six months ago by the Department of Civilian Aviation (DCA) in response to the former government's rush to open the airport for domestic flights on July 29, will expire tomorrow and officials feel uneasy about extending it.
DCA director-general Chaisak Angsuwan said the lack of certification was likely to affect international confidence in Thailand's brand new airport, but it was impossible for his agency to issue a permanent certificate amid looming problems such as major cracks on the runway, taxiway and tarmac.
"The best we could do is issue another six-month interim certificate to Suvarnabhumi, but I'm not certain if we can do it by this Friday because there are a long list of questions for which we are still awaiting answers from the Airports of Thailand," he said.
Chaisak said his agency needed to see a comprehensive plan of how the cracks - reportedly scattered around some 100,000 square metres of the airport - would be addressed, as well as other unresolved safety issues such as inadequate lighting and airfield signs.
The Thaksin Shinawatra government rushed to officially open Suvarnabhumi in late September amid criticism from both local and international aviation industry that the airport was not ready. The Council for National Security, which ousted Thaksin 10 days before the opening, said it was too late to change the schedule.
These developments potentially set the stage for the airport to be left in a certification "no-man's land" as Thai credibility in regard to ensuring airport safety up to ICAO standards has suffered a major blow.
"The ICAO will soon release a list of uncertified airports in the world and it remains to be seen if Suvarnabhumi will be on the list," a DCA safety official, who asked not to be named, said.
Runway and tarmac cracks, which began appearing at the time of the official opening, seemed to be getting worse, said the safety official, and that made it impossible to certify that Suvarnabhumi met ICAO standards.
One of the key factors that has officials worried is the lack of confidence they have in numbers provided by AOT for certification of the runways' surface strength, known as the pavement classification number (PCN).
As was revealed by The Nation in July, DCA officials were frustrated that their efforts to obtain the data, and analysis that support the reported figure, have failed.
The safety official said the DCA's handling of certification for the new airport would also be a gauge for the state agency's own credibility. Last year the DCA was chosen as one of the first four agencies under an ICAO global campaign initiated in 2003 to evaluate member governments' capacity to conduct airport certifications consistent with ICAO guidelines. The other countries were Canada, Germany and Malaysia.
"The AOT reputation is going down the drain from the way it manages Suvarnabhumi, [and] I don't want to see DCA going down with it. Otherwise, what will be left of Thailand's aviation reputation?" the official said.
However, Suvarnabhumi Airport director Somchai Sawasdeepon said the aerodrome certification was not a legal binding issue and the airport could continue to operate without it.
"But the certification is an ICAO requirement and we would like to comply with it, that's why we applied to the DCA to issue us one," he said.
"We have addressed the concerns raised by DCA and will submit our answers tomorrow or the next day. An interim certificate is fine because there are many other airports in the world that have also still not been certified."
"The runway and taxiway saga continues at Bangkok with Thai airways flights from Singapore and Hong Kong today having to divert to U Tapao airport in Chon Buri for re-fueling due to stacking problems as repairs on the ground take place. I understand from a surveyor friend of mine here in Thailand that the cracking/subsidance problem is likely get worse with time and use."- posted by 'Phil Space'
(5)
" I was at the new BKK 2 days ago. This was my second visit since the airport opened and as I had some spare time during the turnaround I decided to have a 'look' at the terminal building.
On Concourse C (level 2) there are some cracked windows. Toilets and signage are a joke throughout the terminal. Males entering Female toilets and vice versa.
I was told there is an 'army' of workers drawing plans for changes in the terminal. Sections of the terminal will be closed whilst works are in progress." - posted by 'B772'
(6)
"Oh dear me, this is set to get worse.
In answer to TOP's question, for reasons known only to themselves, the ICAO allow the Thai Department of Civil Aviation to "self certify" on behalf of the ICAO. This is one of the root causes of how we have got to this mess, because clearly, what we here call "influential people" (which at the time included the former prime minister) have coerced the DCA to grant this certification, even though they were not presented with any evidence to support the AOT's claims as to the strength of their runways. Even then, 6 months ago, they only granted Suvarnabhumi temporary certification, which expired yesterday. We are waiting for news if this has been extended, but that is unlikely, because the influential pressure is now in reverse and the DCA are furiously backtracking to try to save what little of their reputation remains.
The ominous thing is the timing of all this. The problems with the runways would seem to stem from the fact that they are of generally sub-standard construction. This should be viewed in the context that the whole facility is built on a flood plain. In Thailand, from April to October, it rains pretty much every day and the water table is replenished. From November until March, there is almost no rain and the water table subsides. For that reason, there has to be proper water management and the runways have to be properly built. We are now in the middle of the dry season at the end of January and the water table will continue to fall for another two months at least. We can therefore, expect further subsidence in the coming months, followed by the inevitable bulging, followed by the inevitable... " -posted by 'Bangkokeasy'
(7)
"Having passengered through the new BKK terminal recently, I was amazed at just how substandard the whole place is. "Gloomy" was the immediate word that came to mind - the lighting is just hopeless at night. The isolated bright spots are the retail shops. You walk for absolutely miles to get anywhere - are there any travelators?
Then I noticed my long-haul colleagues planning our QF1 sector to London whilst sitting in the holding pen in amongst the passengers! "Nowhere to flight-plan" they said..... One of the crew got up to get something out his briefcase and returned to find a 5-yr-old had taken his seat! A long, complicated sector to London and the crew can't even have a counter with decent lighting away from the 300+ customers. Then again, maybe that is simply QF cost-cutting in action - an office somewhere would cost money?
The new BKK ain't even close to the same league that includes SIN, HKG, KUL, ICN and NRT. What on earth were the Thais thinking?" - posted by Ron & Edna Johns
(8)
The saga continues with test holes being drilled everywhere and now the boss of Airports of Thailand cracks up and resigns. Rats and a sinking ship spring to mind.
Chotisak Asapaviriya confirmed Friday his resignation as president of Airports of Thailand (AoT) resulted from his health, not his attempt to avoid an evaluation of his job performance.
"I've been under stress even before the Suvarnabhumi airport opened. I did not sleep for three days (before it opened)." Mr Chotisak said in a morning interview with a radio station. "It has been very stressful since it opened. I weigh 14 kilos less in the past three to four months after it opened."
Two executives of the airport -- Somchai Sawasdeepol and Sombat Khunprasert -- were dismissed from their positions as the airport director and its director of commercial operations over problems there.
An investigation into the cause of some 100 cracks found on the taxiways and runways of Bangkok's brand new $3.9 billion SuvarnabhumiAirport will be ready by Feb 16, the head of the probe said on Friday.
"At least 97,000 square metres of the airport has been damaged, or 5.3 per cent of the whole facility," said Tortrakul Yomnak, chief engineer at the Airports of Thailand (AoT) who is leading an investigation into the Suvarnabhumi fiasco.
Only four months after its official opening on September 28, more than 100 cracks have been found in Suvarnabhumi, prompting the government to consider the reopening of Bangkok's old airport at Don Muang, at least to service domestic flights.
There are fears that corners were cut in groundwork beneath the Suvarnabhumni runways, which might lead to more cracks and a complete closure of the new airport in the future, or else a massive fix-it bill.
The cracks have highlighted the extent of the corruption involved at the massive infrastructure undertaking, which was one of the pet project of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted by a coup on September 19.
"We all know there was a lot of corruption in this project," Tortrakul told a group of journalists he had taken to inspect the airport on Friday. "Maybe 90 per cent of the projects (involved corruption)," he ventured. - posted by 'Ye Olde Pilot'
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Its a bit confusing that there is more than one thread on this subject. Perhaps the moderators could put them together. I posted this an hour or so ago on the Airlines, Airports and routes forum.
This is a photograph of Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport taken on July 26, 2006 a few weeks before the airport officially opened.
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Now, I'm not a civil engineer but it seems to me that even if the level of the airport itself had been raised by 10 - 15 feet (a major landfill operation in anyone's terms) the lowest part of the of the runway and taxiway foundations (assuming that the hardcore, impacted foundation material and runway sub-structure and top surface was at least 10 feet thick) would have been very close to the water table as you can see. Subsidence would seem inevitable.
There has been much comment, locally and elsewhere, that the airport was rushed into service and opened too early. That related to the terminal buildings and has nothing to do with the runways and taxiways that were already completed. No amount of work (other than a complete rebuild) over an extended period of time until the airport was deemed to be 'ready' would change that.
I accept that there are airports around the world that have been built either on or very close to water. London City or the new Hong Kong (even the old Hong Kong) are examples. But look at that photo. Suvarnabhumi has just been laid down on top of an existing swamp! There is no solid substructure (like Hong Kong which began as 2 islands) or London City which was built above existing piers and jetties that had been there for nearly a century.
The latest in the saga here is that the Director has resigned and a couple of lesser individuals have been sacked. Since it was the Director himself who categorically stated that the airport would never close, does that clear the way for closure for real? Interesting.
Keeping Suvarnabhumi open whilst there are severe doubts as to it's safety will do Thailand absolutely no good at all particularly with the tourist industry reeling from a combination of negative events such as the coup, bombs in Bangkok, the insurgency in the south etc etc.
Re-opening Don Muang for international flights and adding U-Taphao to ease the strain makes very good sense. This will allow the Thais to shut Suvarnabhumi down and set about sorting out Suvarnabhumi once and for all thus creating the prestige international gateway it should have been from the outset. - posted by 'Xeque'
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Airlines threaten to boycott Thailand
BANGKOK: -- International airlines have threatened to stop flights into Thailand if they are forced to move from the new international Suvarnabhumi gateway back to the old Don Muang airport.
Board of Airline Representatives president Brian Sinclair-Thompson, speaking for more than 60 carriers, said last night:
"Some members are going to review their commitment to continue their services from Thailand if they are forced to split operations to serve two airports.''
The threat effectively forced the hand of Thailand's military government, which has been besieged by problems surrounding the new $A7 billion gateway, opened last September as a replacement for the 90-year-old Don Muang facility.
Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont has announced he will personally take over the handling of problems related to Suvarnabhumi after the pull-out threat was made to Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen at a meeting with top foreign airline officials in Bangkok.
Gen Surayud told the Bangkok Post that fixing Suvarnabhumi's problems - including numerous cracks on runways and taxiways as well as design flaws at the main terminal - was now among the top priorities of the interim government.
In addressing the airport's problems, his government would keep in mind that it must protect national interests and ensure passenger safety.
A high-level meeting has been called for today by the committee on operating policies for Suvarnabhumi and Bangkok airports.
Gen Surayud is expected to rubber-stamp the Transport Ministry's recommendations on the future of the two airports after a briefing on conditions at Suvarnabhumi by teams that have examined the problem-plagued airport.
It is now known that 71 flights by only three domestic carriers - Nok Air, One Two Go and some Thai Airways services - will resume from Don Muang on March 25.
The consortium which built Suvarbabhumi claimed yesterday the new airport's design met with all the requirements of the terms of reference it had signed with Airport of Thailand (AOT).
But the Murphy Jahn/TAMS/ACT (MJTA) consortium admitted yesterday the design had been modified during construction to cut costs, and said it was confident that the new airport was safe enough for all passengers and staff working in the facility.
Wanchai Wimuktayon, managing director of ACT Consultants Co, which is part of the MJTA, promised his company would clarify 31 out of 61 construction-related problems in the area of airport design at a press conference to be held on February 21.
He was confident, however, that all the problems could be fixed and the repairs would not require the airport to be completely closed.
--The Australian 2007-02-17
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"I bet the laughter from the offices of the authorities from KLIA and Changi, is deafening!" - posted by 'Clipped'
And now this ! Somebody really should get their act together before there is an accident:-
SUVARNABHUMI CRISISAirport passenger terminal is a firetrap: designer
People could die in an evacuation because of blocked exits: Wanchai
Suvarnabhumi Airport passenger terminal has been rendered a firetrap by construction changes and operational mismanagement, one of its designers warned yesterday.
"In a case of fire, there could be evacuation problems and people could die," he asserted.
A couple of excerpts from the Luchtzak Aviation Forum:-
(1)
"Suvarnabhumi airport has another flaw:
11 passenger boarding bridges are damaged, two of them seriously.
Cause of the problem?
Maybe substandard steel
Maybe improper installation of the airbridges
Maybe failure of staff of Thai Airports Ground Services Co (Tags) to operate the moveable bridges properly.
One of the three causes might be an optimistic option, because it could as well be two or three at the same time.... (We will see if & when more damage reports are issued)
D5 and F1 bridges must be closed
G5, G3, F5, D6, C7 and B4 bridges: slightly damaged but still usable."
(2)
"An expert claims: "Nature is now taking its toll in this swamp" Sumet Jumsai, one of Thailand's top architects insists that the airport would have collapsed — corruption or not.
Some 100 cracks have emerged in runways and taxiways.
That's also why water pipes burst.
But others technical flaws have nothing to do with the swamp....
Many automatic fire exits are malfunctioning and do not open until the electricity was cut off.
Metal fire-exit doors could become hot and harmful in cases of fire.
Many air purifiers and air blowers in smoking rooms are not wired.
The terminal's 400-hertz PC cooling system is also problematic.
Some sections of the roof are found to have high heat, which could be a problem in summer."
The respected member 'Ian' says that this dialogue, "may be fun but will not change anything."
If you all would like to look at the photo just above this script you will see an airport that looks like it has been planted(literally) in a Miami swamp. If the references I have quoted are correct and the infill has been used elsewhere and not enough sand etc, has been impacted down there is only one conclusion. This house has been built, effectively, on a pack of cards. The result will not be a decision made not by politicians or airlines. But a pile of dodgy concrete descending into the quicksand.
I have taken the next analysis from the Internet so verification as with many Internet things is difficult. I do think it sums up the situation and I believe that events and not politicians and airlines will dictate the final outcome:
Written by 'p1p' :-
At the beach or a river bank, take a handful of sand and hold it tightly in your fist. Now submerse it in water. No matter what you do, the sand will escape and the mass you are holding will become smaller and smaller.
Sand is an acceptable base for concrete only if it is never exposed to water in significant quantities. If it becomes saturated with water, it becomes a liquid as well.
Suvarnabhumi's runways and taxiways were built on saturated soils. Some of this soil, highly plastic in composition, was removed and replaced as it could never be compacted sufficiently to keep it from 'oozing'. However, not all of this soil was removed. 'Marginal' material was permitted to remain. Some of this material should have been removed. In other places and at other times during the prolonged sub-structuring of the area, different medthodology was applied. Some contrators accepted existing sub soils, some mixed new fill in, and some replaced questionable fill. This was done over several years and as of consequence, the substrate beneath the runways and taxiways is not uniform. All soils will eventually subside under load, if they subside at different rates, cracks will appear as well as several other obvious problems.
The use of sand as a leveling fill on top of this questionable substrate is only acceptable if the sand is never permitted to become permeated with moisture. The runways and taxiways are crowned, higher in the middle. At the sides of them there are weep screeds to permit any moisture that may percolate up through the substrates to be carried off by the sand before subsidence can occur. However, if the ditches into which the screeds drain become filled with water, the water will flow out into the sand. Subsidence will be inevitable. During the recent rainy season, all the drainage ditches surrounding the runways and taxiways became filled with water. Undoubtedly, some of the sand beneath the areas has flowed out and voids remain. There are no measures in place to prevent this reverse flow at present.
Can the runways and taxiways as built be repaired? No. Considering the quantity of ground water in the surrounding area, and the uneven and un-uniform substrates, the only permanent remedial action is to remove most of the runway and taxiways, remove the substrate materials and replace it with clay bearing compactable fill. Sand will no longer be required if the fill is sufficiently impermeable. The alternative to this is driving piles through the substrates and, in essence, standing the runways and taxiways upon them as bridges.
The problems with these two remedial solutions is, respectively, finding enough clay bearing fill and transporting it to the airport would be extremely difficult, very costly, and time consuming. The driven piles however, would probably be even costlier. However, unless one of these two measures is undertaken, the problems of cracking and subsidence will never be eliminated. The fact is, you cannot build a live load structure on mud, a swamp. The swamp must be drained and unacceptable substrate materials replaced so the area experiences only uniform subsidence. This was not done in places, and haphazardly done in other areas. The runways and taxiways are doomed.
As for the terminal building itself. It was observed that several AC arc welders were used when the steel superstructures were built. To put it short, terse and succinct: the building must be condemned. Only DC or DC reverse welding is acceptable for structural load bearing welding. With casual inspection this, AC welding, can be noted in many places. The entire structure is unsound and will suffer some catastrophic destruction during an earthquake or severe winds. To contribute to this impending hazard, many of the building materials are not of acceptable construction standards and will become projectiles in the event of catastrophic destruction. Non safety glass and non structural, non re-enforced 'filler' walls and joints but two examples.
Compounding the inherent deficiency in construction, the board of the AoT has complained that they h.......
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